The Star Wars Rants:

[Andrew.poole]

Or worse some kind of half arsed unwanted explaination of what Obi-Wan is doing as he surrenders and puts his sabre to his head.

I was thinking about that very scene just now and how much I love the music as it builds, Alec Guinesses serene and calm performance as he faces his end.

Excellent example of the things the OS did right and the Prequels tend to screw up on.
Is the lightsabre/head thing part of transcending to become a force ghost? Or a salute to an advasery old Jedi duelling style? Or maybe a personal prayer to the force ?

It could be any of those, all of them or something different altogether, the point is we dont need to know or have it spelled out in some turgid exposition, its a beautifull scene filled with mystery and sadness as Luke loses his mentor.
And then a clue that all is not as it seems as we see Vader poking the robes on the floor looking for the body and we hear Obi-Wans voice from beyond the grave.

[daveshans]

Originally Posted by Andrew.poole

I can see what your saying about the giving him a chance to surrender, but I still think the "Winning move" it just feels so blunt and direct when I see it.

There is also the similarities between this and the Luke vs. Vader duel in RotJ. In both cases Anakin/Vader are in a weaker position and both times is given a chance for redemption by his opponent. The first time he doesn't take it and ends up suffering because of it. He doesn't make the same mistake the second time.

Originally Posted by Andrew.poole

Thats why I hate the whole "High ground" thing, as what is the longest most important duel we have seen so far is decided and resolved at the end on the fact that Obi Wan is standing on a hill. It diminishes the conflict and does nothing to show us the things going behind the actual duel as we have seen in previous ones.

It's not just the hill, there was lava rising towards him too so his only choice is to try attack an opponent who is in a stronger position or surrender.

[Templar]

One of the main pet hates of mine in the PT is the silly and pointless spinning of the lightsabres without actually physically hitting one another. Style with no substance, quite unlike the hack and slash of the OT sabre battles.

[Kudos]

Ah, we haven't had this posted for a while...

Originally Posted by Veela Magnet

[Templar]

lol Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I mean, what's the point of all that crap? At least in the OT the sabre battles actually looked like they were fighting one another. This? This looks like they're posing for the camera with fancy twirls. "Look what I can do with my sabre!" "Nah, I've got that beat. Look at this!" And even when they did fight, after all the posing, it still looked like it was all practised beforehand.

[Knappos]

Han Solo is wasted in Return of the Jedi.

Lucas should have given Ford what he watned and a meaningful death.

[mozz]

It would have been interesting to have a heroic death in RotJ. I know in earlier drafts, Lando and the Falcon didn't quite make it out of the Death Star. Would have given it some emotional oomph.

[Templar]

I've just watched Captain America for the first time since the cinema and it occurred to me, why is it that we can accept the sad ending from that movie, Cap losing both his best mate and his girl, but people don't think they could accept Han dying in ROTJ? Very similar endings, wouldn't you agree?

And another thing, why is it I felt much more for Bucky kicking the bucket, a character I only saw for a fraction of a movie, but I felt absolutely sweet FA for Anakin at the end of the PT? I didn't feel at all sympathetic towards Anakin in the slightest, even though 3 whole movies were dedicated to him! Bucky, on the other hand, I felt sad for even though we hardly had enough time to get to know his character.

[Kudos]

Originally Posted by Templar

I've just watched Captain America for the first time since the cinema and it occurred to me, why is it that we can accept the sad ending from that movie, Cap losing both his best mate and his girl, but people don't think they could accept Han dying in ROTJ? Very similar endings, wouldn't you agree?

No. I have no problem with a happy ending, just because characters could die doesn't mean you have to kill them off. Ford thought it might be a good idea to kill off his character, Lucas disagreed. Simple as.

And another thing, why is it I felt much more for Bucky kicking the bucket, a character I only saw for a fraction of a movie, but I felt absolutely sweet FA for Anakin at the end of the PT? I didn't feel at all sympathetic towards Anakin in the slightest, even though 3 whole movies were dedicated to him! Bucky, on the other hand, I felt sad for even though we hardly had enough time to get to know his character.

That's easy. Anakin was a badly written and badly acted character who's story was so poorly plotted out that it was neither interesting or engaging.

[Templar]

OMG! OMG! I've just been reading up on the 'Han Dying' thing and I've just realised what naughty Mr. Johnston's done when he made Captain America!

After the release of “Empire” (which was shaped by material left over from that first Lucas treatment), talk turned to a third film and after a decade and a half the partners could no longer find a middle ground.
“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

"The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,”

Bucky (Cap's best mate and co male lead) was rescued near the beginning of the movie then he's killed half way through in a big raid on a Nazi base! Not only that but Cap's girl is left all lonely after Cap goes off alone! Admittedly the love interest was switched around, but it's almost an exact parallel of the original script for ROTJ! Naughty Mr. Joe "SFX man of ESB & ROTJ" Johnston! What makes me think he liked the original idea of Han dying and the poignant ending in ROTJ as well!