Profound or icky? You decide

[daveshans]

Originally Posted by windknight

however, male athletes wear clothes that generally don't cover much more than that of female athletes, but you don't see male heroes wearing similar attire.

True except for the Submariner's speedo. Don't (some) women generally wear less anyway? I haven't seen many men in short shorts or short skirts and skimpy tops but I have seen a lot of women in them.

Originally Posted by darkman

On the other hand she doesn't look like stripper so I consider that a win.

Looking like a stripper isn't always a disadvantage, I'm sure it's actually very distracting to most male supervillans they happen to be fighting.

Originally Posted by darkman

It wasn't the same process because they didn't want a super heroine that didn't cater to the male readers.

But the lack of unattractiveness isn't just confined to female superheroes (or comics at all really). The only human (or close to it) male heroes I can think of off the top of my head that would be considered hideous as such are Deadpool, Hulk and Thing.* Most other characters seem to be above average to extremely attractive.

*I haven't read many DC titles but from what I have they don't all seem to be hideous either.

Originally Posted by darkman

First of all that's a very loose interpretation of the design of lifting gear:

Second, the Hulk's costume might not be free flowing but at least the torn jeans saves him from covers like this:

Not in every case.

[Happy-Hangman]

Originally Posted by Fricky

See, I didn't know that(though didn't she actually have a skirt in the Golden Age?), and I can understand that, but no one really explained it like that on the message boards I was on that the time. It was all just about changing something long standing. And looking up golden age pics, it still looks like a bathing suit in general. It only really looks more warrior like to me when it incorporates that greco-roman skirt piece that sometimes gets used.

Also in defense of the JMS costume. Design aside, it made sense in that particular story as she was meant to be in hiding and not even out doing superheroics, so a look with more contemporary clothes that don't scream warrior made sense. Also, from a practical perspective, a jacket does add one thing to Wonder Woman's costume...pockets. Where does she keep her loose change in her regular costume??

The original Golden Age costume did involve a skirt, but it was removed because in her action scenes it looked, twirling, as though it was providing tease-images of her panties. Martson decided that longer girdle-shorts were preferrable in that they exposed alll that would ever be exposed. The creator also wanted her to represent a physical as well as a moral ideal, so being boldly bare-legged - athletic, but not overtly titillating - was also a conscious visual choice.

I gave up on Straczinski's run half-way through. I thought he showed no understanding of the character and, worse, was constantly re-hashing ideas he'd employed better elsewhere. The costume was a bad mix of '80s Rogue and Superboy.

[darkman]

Originally Posted by daveshans

Looking like a stripper isn't always a disadvantage, I'm sure it's actually very distracting to most male supervillans they happen to be fighting.

If it's so advantageous to dress like a stripper why doesn't more male super heroes do it?

But the lack of unattractiveness isn't just confined to female superheroes (or comics at all really). The only human (or close to it) male heroes I can think of off the top of my head that would be considered hideous as such are Deadpool, Hulk and Thing.* Most other characters seem to be above average to extremely attractive.

Find me one frame of a super hero comic that looks like the one of She Hulk but with a male super hero instead and I will buy that argument.

How is that even close to what She Hulk is wearing?

[daveshans]

Originally Posted by darkman

If it's so advantageous to dress like a stripper why doesn't more male super heroes do it?

Because it wouldn't really offer the same advantage but I refer you to number one on Cracked's list of the five most sexist super hero costumes that you linked to. Also don't male strippers tend to dress like firemen, police etc?

Originally Posted by darkman

Find me one frame of a super hero comic that looks like the one of She Hulk but with a male super hero instead and I will buy that argument.

I'm not going to argue that the She-hulk cover isn't over the top but whether or not there is a male equivalent of it doesn't detract from the fact that super heroes (or most young characters in comics for that matter) both male and female would generally be considered to be (in their reality) attractive.


Green Lantern's ass in tight costume.


Not as revealing but framed in the same way.

And a lovely crotch-centric shot of Captain America.

Originally Posted by darkman

How is that even close to what She Hulk is wearing?

Aside from not being as cut back around the legs/ass they are very similar.

[Happy-Hangman]

No offence, but balls - chiefly because if male costumes highlighted the male heroes' 'lunchbox' with such gleeful visual exaggeration as are applied to the bits and bobs of female characters there wouldn't be room on the page for ought else.

Most 'hero' comic-readers are male. Male characters are big, muscular and manly, the images representing them being idealized representations of strength, largely avoiding the meat-and-two-veg because...well...lets just say Frederic Wertham would have had one or two things to say about that. Classic costumes for male characters traditionally fell into three camps, the uniforms (a la Captain Americs, Bucky, Green Lantern), circus-exotic (the pants over the tights look favoured by Superman, et al, being reminiscent of circus acrobats) and the athletic (the Sub-Mariner's trunks to original audiences would have linked to popular press and newsreel footage of aquatic athletes of the day, such as Johnny Weissmuller and Larry 'Buster' Crabbe - whose screen apparel, once they went to Hollywood, often echoed their former Olympic aesthetic).

Female costumes, by and large, fall into similar categories. Good girls - really good girls, that is - get uniforms or circus outfits (Sue Storm and Batgirl, for example). Athleticism, though - pandering to the fantasy life of the readers - is generally supplanted by sexuality. Big boobs and booty are to the fore, literally and metaphorically. Big hair, too, as that's often an indicator of fashionable tropes of 'glamour'. Bare limbs, exposed cleavage or midriffs are more likely in a female character's costumes, as are the sort of straps, pouches and elements of what might otherwise be considered fetish or bondage gear (Emma Frost, please stand up!).

[darkman]

Originally Posted by daveshans

Because it wouldn't really offer the same advantage but I refer you to number one on Cracked's list of the five most sexist super hero costumes that you linked to.

You should read the words too:

Originally Posted by Cracked

But it's not ridiculous because he's wearing a superpowered Speedo: That's how any man would react to being well-built, usually glistening and most often found on the beach. The ridiculousness comes from people who justify the superpowered strippers by pointing out that men are just as unreasonably objectified in comics.
Near-naked superhorny women is a male fantasy. Being a hulking Adonis who can punch through tanks is also a male fantasy. This ... this isn't hard, guys, unlike many things when you're considering those issues. If you ever find a woman sexually excited by men with the approximate dimensions of a semi truck, it's either Tila Tequila or Optimus Prime's number one fan.

[daveshans]

It wouldn't be the first time I disagreed with a Cracked article.

What it all boils down to for me is in a world where the only point of clothing is to allow for maximum dexterity and to cover up enough so you don't get arrested for indecent exposure why not wear as little as possible?

[darkman]

Originally Posted by daveshans

What it all boils down to for me is in a world where the only point of clothing is to allow for maximum dexterity and to cover up enough so you don't get arrested for indecent exposure why not wear as little as possible?

For one thing very few of the costumes of female super heroines doesn't allow for much dexterity at all and if wearing as revealing clothing as possible is the goal why doesn't all the male super heroes do it?

[daveshans]

Originally Posted by darkman

For one thing very few of the costumes of female super heroines doesn't allow for much dexterity at all

Of the ones not concerned with a level of protection most are very dexterous. A few examples: She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel,* any of the Spider-Women, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Psylocke.

*boots aside but she's a flyer so I'm not sure how important freedom of movement around the knees is for them.

Originally Posted by darkman

and if wearing as revealing clothing as possible is the goal why doesn't all the male super heroes do it?

Personally I wouldn't care if any of the male superheros I read on a monthly basis switched from their regular costume to a mankini and a cape and the female ones switched to baggy clothing.* Although I probably would have had an issue with it when I was younger.

*Which would allow for the same freedom of movement but at the cost of getting caught on something tripping on it etc.

ETA: I just realised I'm using dexterity in the RPG sense which is essentially flexibility.

[darkman]

Yes, apparently Psylocke's costume makes her so dexterous that's she is capable of violating the laws of human anatomy:


Face it, the costumes of super heroines isn't designed for any extra dexterity but to show of so much t&a that the censors will allow. Unless thongs are super comfortable to fight in that is.