Game Of Thrones S2 episode discussion BOOK READERS WITH SPOILERS

[Slamhamster]

I loved the reveal as the faceless man discarded the Jaqen H'ghar persona, Brienne shutting up Jamie Lannister with two quick and one slow, not forgetting the finale with the three blasts of the horn.

[vonbloodbath]

Just...just....brilliant. perfect antidote to Prometheus.

[Charlie]

Just caught up with the last two episodes.

Good stuff.

A couple of questions that the books may shed light on (I have not read them)

Why did the Dog decide he did not want to fight any more? Also was he afraid of fire, are those scars burns?

The guy that slashed Tyrion, was he a Lannister? I couldnt quite work that out.

Why has the Stark army not chased Tywin south? They dont appear to have done much lately, or are they really only interested in controlling the North?

Not entirely sure that I approve of the tactics of a marine landing to assault Kings Landing. Surely better to make a landing lay siege, and then attack from the sea in addition to a land assault. Or was Stannis that over confidant?

[kahless]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Just caught up with the last two episodes.

Good stuff.

A couple of questions that the books may shed light on (I have not read them)

Why did the Dog decide he did not want to fight any more? Also was he afraid of fire, are those scars burns?

Sandor has a fear of fire because of his burns - caused by his brother Gregor when a small boy - his abandoning the battle is explained better in the book, and was only mentioned once by Littlefinger during S1 to Sansa (at the Hand's tournament).

Originally Posted by Charlie

The guy that slashed Tyrion, was he a Lannister? I couldnt quite work that out.

He was a member of the Kingsguard - the one Joffrey tells to stay with his uncle prior to the battle - in the book it is a different character who injures Tyrion and its alluded to that he did so on either Joffrey or Cersie's orders. I think the idea was to remove Tyrion so Joffrey could claim all the glory.

Originally Posted by Charlie

Why has the Stark army not chased Tywin south? They dont appear to have done much lately, or are they really only interested in controlling the North?

This is never really explained in the book. But I think that even though Tywin and his force went south there was still a substantial Lannister army engaging Robb.

[Slamhamster]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Just caught up with the last two episodes.

Good stuff.

A couple of questions that the books may shed light on (I have not read them)

Why did the Dog decide he did not want to fight any more? Also was he afraid of fire, are those scars burns?

He is scared of fire since his brother (Gregor Clegane aka The Mountain) pushed his face into some burning coals as a child.

The guy that slashed Tyrion, was he a Lannister? I couldnt quite work that out.

No, he was Ser Mandon Moore - a member of The Kingsguard. He was acting on the orders of Cersei Lannister though.

Why has the Stark army not chased Tywin south? They dont appear to have done much lately, or are they really only interested in controlling the North?

Probably because Stannis Baratheon was headed to Kings Landing, and Robb didn't fancy his chances in that event.

Not entirely sure that I approve of the tactics of a marine landing to assault Kings Landing. Surely better to make a landing lay siege, and then attack from the sea in addition to a land assault. Or was Stannis that over confidant?

Mostly down to Mellisandre IIRC, in the books she saw a vision on the Kings Landing being saved by Renly Baratheon, hence the plot to kill him with the Shadow before it could happen. It turned out she'd actually seen Ser Loras Tyrell dressed in Renly's armour, so she didn't manage to alter the outcome as she'd initially misread the flames.

[kahless]

I've been thinking about Dany's visions, or more specifically the one in the throne room. She see's the Iron Throne in a destroyed room with snow falling on it, what could this mean?

1. With the advance of winter do the Others break through the Wall and destroy Kings Landing?

2. Winter Is Coming for Kings Landing and the Lannister's, does it mean the Starks (once called the Kings of Winter) are triumphant and win the war?

3. Is the snow falling on the Iron Throne symbolic and point towards Jon Snow and him sitting on the throne (I don't for one minute believe he is dead).

[Knappos]

Originally Posted by kahless

I've been thinking about Dany's visions, or more specifically the one in the throne room. She see's the Iron Throne in a destroyed room with snow falling on it, what could this mean?

1. With the advance of winter do the Others break through the Wall and destroy Kings Landing?

2. Winter Is Coming for Kings Landing and the Lannister's, does it mean the Starks (once called the Kings of Winter) are triumphant and win the war?

3. Is the snow falling on the Iron Throne symbolic and point towards Jon Snow and him sitting on the throne (I don't for one minute believe he is dead).

Well, I think that rather depends on how fast and loose the show plays with the books.

I always thought that the end would be Dragons versus Others in some way. Although I am ready and hoping to be surprised or that it at least follows the 'give them what they want/expect, just not how they expect it' rule

1) With Winter coming/pretty much here (there?) in the books, they could well do. although considering the assault on the Fist the Others have been quite absent for a while now (the fight at the cave aside). In that way, I was let down by the last image of season 2 a bit, yeah, that will pay off in season 3 but from the advancing horde it gives the impression of something relentless, where as the Wildings story takes over.

2) Given that Rob's married now, I can't see the RW not happening, leaving Bran and Rickon of house Stark. And Sanza and Arya. With Bran where he is in ADwD and Rickon AWOL, could house Stark even do this? Unless Davos finds Rickon, who can re-establish House Stark I wouldn't have thought so. Also if House Stark is rebuilt in this way, it would surely be under Stannis supervision? I am massively discounting the girls but Arya is soon to be faceless pretty much and Sanza couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag. (more below)

3) I agree, Jon cannot be dead and we never saw a body (yet). He turned on his vows though so he could be done with the Night's Watch and become the head of House Stark, being letigimised by Stannis maybe. Although I think he is going to find it tough to recover from his experience at the end of ADwD and, following the resolution of the Ramsay letter, I'd reckon on him trying to help at the wall still. He is pretty much the only person who sees and appreciates the real threat (other than Sam) beyond the wall. Although, Jon sitting the Iron Throne as King, he could then command the armies of the realms to march on the wall to defend against the Others.

Of course, Dany's vision could mean that the realm is cold and needs a good old fashioned dose of fire. Or it could have been put there for her to suggest that her birthright is a cold place and she is blood of the dragon, a creature of fire and doesn't belong there. Something to try to convince her to stay in Qarth. Although that's probably rubbish.

Overall, loved the last episode. I love how the two season finales have acted as denouement as much (or more) as cliff hanger bait.

I did think that the dragons maybe haven't grown enough yet and when Rob got married I had flashbacks to both Braveheart and Attack of the Clones.

Strange that Catelyn knew about the marriage before hand. Her fury at finding out later in the books certainly doesn't mesh well with her almost couldn't be bothered to object nature here.

That's not how I imagined the others looking when I was reading the books but they looked pretty freakin' cool so that's not a quibble.

When the third blast of the horn went off I had a shiver down my spine. And I almost thought we would have Sam the Slayer bought forward.

Bring on the Lannister/Tyrell alliance.

Last thought, does that mean Theon has a season or two off coming up? I can't remember him being absent from ASoS but when I read the books, I powered through them so my memories of what happens where are unreliable.

[vonbloodbath]

It looked like there was something on the iron throne in Dany's vision: bones, perhaps?

[kahless]

Originally Posted by Knappos

That's not how I imagined the others looking when I was reading the books but they looked pretty freakin' cool so that's not a quibble.

I always imagined them more elegant, not Elvish elegant but definitely not treeish as they looked in the episode. But then GRRM has given D & D an overview of what happens in the last 2 books, so maybe we get to learn that the Others & Children of the Forest are related/same race?

Originally Posted by Knappos

Last thought, does that mean Theon has a season or two off coming up? I can't remember him being absent from ASoS but when I read the books, I powered through them so my memories of what happens where are unreliable.

In the books we don't see Theon again until ADwD - he is mentioned, and bits of his skin are sent to various characters, leading them to believe he is dead - but I don't for one minute think he'll be absent for the next possibly 3 - 4 seasons.

Don't forget that in the books Jamie was absent for the whole of ACoK, locked up in the dungeons of Riverrun. I imagine if Theon is taken by Ramsey (and apparently that character is being cast as we speak) we might see bits of his imprisonment & torture.