Batman 3 - The Dark Knight Rises

[badhat-h]

BD review at-


http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd...ght-rises.html

[Wee Little Puppet Man]

Joel Schumacher is a fan of Christopher Nolan's Bat films.

The man has taste after all.

[Veela Magnet]

Originally Posted by Wee Little Puppet Man

Joel Schumacher is a fan of Christopher Nolan's Bat films.

The man has taste after all.

I could just imagine the two of them meeting up at a festival and Joel Schumacher has conveniently brought in a Batman & Robin DVD to lend Chris Nolan...

"Oh go on, give it a watch, you might like it!"

[Link]

It's funny 'cos Joel Schumacher could probably direct a pretty good bat film but he made studio films.. he did what the studios wanted..

[Fricky]

Originally Posted by Vegeeta-san

I prefered prometheus to this tbh. At least Doc Shaw didn't insist on 8 years off when Holloway died. /fanrage

To be fair, the film makes it clear there was no need for him to be active during that time, and he spends most of The Dark Knight aiming to retire once things are under control anyway.

[Link]

Originally Posted by Veela Magnet

Please try; I'm genuinely curious to know what people didn't like about it.

I found The Dark Knight Rises dissapointing. But I also think Nolan had set himself up for a fail after The Dark Knight - he couldn't top it. I thought it was better than Batman Begins though, which was just terrible.

Which is a shame because I enjoyed The Dark Knight (which is the only one I own on DVD). Having said that, as well written as TDK is, I do think TDK itself would be somewhat average if it were not for Heath as the Joker. Indeed, I am fully convinced in my opinion that Nolans Dark Knight trilogy is an over hyped, average set of films whose only high point comes from the performance of an actor no longer with us.

Now I must say that I'm not really a Batman fan - I'm more of a Marvel guy. I thought Amazing Spider-Man (another so called dissapointment) was one of my fave films this summer. I do also, generally look forward to new Superman films and even liked Superman Returns, even though that was a bit of a dissapointment too. I also don't much care for Burtons Batman films or, indeed, Schumachers. So perhaps, as only a 'casual fan', it somewhat contriubuted to my dissapointment/dislike of the film.

I also wanna say that I am not trying to 'bash' the film for the sake of it or going against trend or anything. I know that TDKR and trilogy in general is very popular and well liked. And I also know that many of the points I am about to make can probably be argued and refuted, which is fine but these are my opinions and views on the film and I will try to express them as best I can.

Ok, in short, it felt like one big bloated, plot holed mess that was trying to be more epic that what it really was.

- The plot wasn't stellar was it... a ticking time bomb? That is set for 5 months even though Bane was gonna kill everyone anyway. And Batman conveniently makes it back in time? After the tension building thriller that was TDK, it just felt very meh.
- The pacing felt off, especially in the third act where the flipping between the prison and seige of Gotham almost plod along until the final sequence that flies by. Other scenes are dealt with in seconds (Bruce/Talia romance?) while others drag on
- You get Tom Hardy to play the villain yet he comes off totally incomprehensible with daft aims. Comparisons to The Joker are unfair but inevitable, and next to Ledger’s anarchist, Bane was about as threatening as Mickey Mouse. Was the mask ever explained? I can't remember.
- There was too much Bruce and not enough Batman
- He's the worlds greatest detective. Yes we see him examining a brick in TDK but it's generally something Nolan seems to ignore or forget throughout the series.
- Truth be told, I didn't think the fights were that great... Nolan has improved his action directing since BB but I'm not into the whole up close/quick cut thing...There were a couple times you couldn't tell who was hitting who and some of the punches looked like they didn't even connect with anyone.
- the WHERE'S THE TRIGGER!? scene actually eclipses the WHERE IS SHE!? scene from TDK for ridiculousness
- "It's not a car" ....need I say more?
- Hathaway as Catwoman didn't really do it for me. I just didn't buy her as 'tough' and being able to beat up 16 stone guys.
- The Scarecrow cameo felt like it would have suited Joker better
- Michael Caine is great an all but I'm sorry those scenes where he has to cry and express his love for Bruce or whatever are fairly painful/laughablel to watch
- Bane was portrayed as the main villain with a master plan throughout the film but at the end he's not really anything more than a henchman to Talia who wishes to fulfill her fathers plan?
- That damn cheesy ending

For a film series that prides itself so much on being a 'realistic take', I thought there were a lot of discrepencies to this notion and plot holes within TDKR.

- Batman wouldn't let Catwoman use a gun to kill someone yet he gives her his Batpod with machine guns on the front and then is suddenly ok with the fact that she uses it to kill Bane
- The conveniently parked Bat down the alleyway but what happens to the Batpod
- Batman leaves the Bat on the roof of that building yet in all those months Gatham is under siege, no one finds it
- John Blake knows Bruce is Batman because he recognises a look in his eyes
- The Mayor got blown up yet no one seemed bothered. The Police Cheif dude got a funeral service in TDK. I don't expect them to devote a funeral scene to it but it's not even mentioned.
- What ever happened to Lucious in that flooded room. Not heard or seen again. Does he die?
- Wasn't it stated in the film that everyone from Arkham was transferred to Blackgate? Yet there is no mention of the Joker escaping. Ok, so they can't show him but they could have had a throw away line, "The last thing we need is the Joker running around"
- Batmans awesome knee cartiledge healing abilities
- A broken back being fixed within 5 months using only a rope sling
- He's in a foreign prison yet he makes it back to Gotham without a passport or any papers of form of money/travel
- Gotham is under seige yet it never really feels like it is. We get a couple people been dragged out of bed and a few - conveniently easily hijackable - trucks driving round. Just feels like more could have been done to really put over what the city is going through
- When he makes it back to Gotham he thinks it wise to use this time to fix the Batlight and pour petrol over the bridge in a huge bat shape and legally leaving Wayne Manor as an orphanage
- Almost the entire Gotham police force being sent to search the sewers, getting trapped there but conveniently surviving to take part in a large brawl
- Bane building his lair underneath the applied sciences even though it's off the books
- What was it, a minute or something left on the timer and Batman has enough time to hook the bomb to the Bat, fly out to a safe distance at sea so the blast doesn't affect Gotham (what must be several miles) and somehow, secretly, eject at some point, all before the bomb blows..

And then there is this.....

- Nolan and Bale have gone on record several times saying they don't like the Robin character and don't wanna use him yet he's there. Ok, not really technically the sidekick Robin but, I'm sorry, it basically is Robin. It's almost like WB forced Nolan to add him so he went "ok but I won't call him Robin".


Now I realise that I am citing a lot of plot holes within a 'fantasy film' and that perhaps a little suspension of disbeleif would help out with some of them... I am not trying to be be high brow or elitist when I list the plot holes, many films have plot holes and flaws and can still be enjoyable... But it's suppose to be a realistic film and a realistic take on the character (to the point that in TDK we see Batman using a hydraulic device to rip open metal) yet there are so many inconsistencies.... BB and TDK were realistic in their approach but it's as if Nolan couldn't be bothered with this one "Yeah let's have him flying all over in this. His knee can suddenly be fine in this scene, no one will notice. Bane can build his base underneath applied sciences which is completely unknown even to Talia but what the hell, it's convenient for the plot"...

Maybe I am being overly harsh on it, I dunno. Truth be told, I didn't have a bad time in the cinema. I would even go as far as to say that I enjoyed it. But, afterwards, I did think it was just.... "meh". People like it and people don't, it's one of them films, like Avatar. Overhyped is the best way to describe it I think - It's ok but not as great as it's made out to be and certainly not as good as TDK.

[Fricky]

And Batman conveniently makes it back in time?

How exactly do you inconveniently get back in time to defuse a bomb?

Bane was about as threatening as Mickey Mouse.

Opinions and all, but...REALLY? The big hulking guy who would and COULD kill on a whim wasn't threatening to you?

Was the mask ever explained? I can't remember.

It was very clearly explained that the mask was fitted after he sustained his injuries in the prison.

He's the worlds greatest detective. Yes we see him examining a brick in TDK but it's generally something Nolan seems to ignore or forget throughout the series.

He identified and tracks down Selina through detective work.

"It's not a car" ....need I say more?

Yes, actually, you do. Selina called it a car, it was a logical thing to say...so...what?

The Scarecrow cameo felt like it would have suited Joker better

Yeah, why couldn't they have gotten Heath Ledger back? Oh, right...

For a film series that prides itself so much on being a 'realistic take', I thought there were a lot of discrepencies to this notion and plot holes within TDKR.

I think there's a misconception about the "realism" thing, as if Nolan really believes he's doing a version of Batman that could actually happen. He's merely took the most fantastical and overtly sci fi elements of the comics out of it (no immortal Ra's, Joker doesn't take a chemical dip and get conveniently green hair and bleached skin) and make things more plausible but he's still making a piece of entertainment he's not trying to make something that seems like a documentary, just more serious.

Batman wouldn't let Catwoman use a gun to kill someone yet he gives her his Batpod with machine guns on the front and then is suddenly ok with the fact that she uses it to kill Bane

He gives her the Batpod with the guns so she can blow up a barricade. When she kills Bane, he kinda has to let it slide because, y'know, there's a more important crisis to deal with

The conveniently parked Bat down the alleyway but what happens to the Batpod

Good point. I'd need to watch it again, but he maybe had some secret compartment deal set up in that alleyway before hand to stash it. And again, you need to explain your use of the word "conveniently". That's where it was hidden and that's where he went to to get it so he could make a big dramatic exit.

Batman leaves the Bat on the roof of that building yet in all those months Gatham is under siege, no one finds it

There's a lot of buildings in Gotham...plus Bane honestly doesn't believe Bruce will get out of the prison ("Impossible...") so he doesn't have much reasonable motivation as a character to look for it.

The Mayor got blown up yet no one seemed bothered. The Police Chief dude got a funeral service in TDK. I don't expect them to devote a funeral scene to it but it's not even mentioned.

Because it was one part of a larger attack and immediately afterwards, Bane's men take over the city and overthrow the authorities(see "more important s**t to deal with), plus...does the audience care enough about the Mayor to SEE a funeral? The Police Commissioner got a funeral scene not because the audience cared, but because that was where the Joker next struck with his attempt to assassinate Harvey Dent.

What ever happened to Lucius in that flooded room. Not heard or seen again. Does he die?

He's clearly shown escaping using a ladder.

Wasn't it stated in the film that everyone from Arkham was transferred to Blackgate? Yet there is no mention of the Joker escaping. Ok, so they can't show him but they could have had a throw away line, "The last thing we need is the Joker running around"

Who says the Joker is even still alive? For all we know, during the 8 year gap he tried to escape and was killed doing it, or he committed suicide, or he could have been transferred to a super maximum security prison elsewhere. Also, Nolan made a point to state the Joker wouldn't be addressed at all in the movie. It's out of respect for Heath Ledger and a desire to not seem like they were exploiting him after his death(like how they omitted behind the scenes footage of him from the Dark Knight DVDs and Blu Rays.

Batman's awesome knee cartiledge healing abilities

He has a sci fi leg brace to help. It's more an issue later since they would have presumably removed it.

A broken back being fixed within 5 months using only a rope sling

They don't actually say he has a broken back. They said something about a disc being out of place or something. I'm not a doctor, so I don't know the extent he could recover from something like that.

He's in a foreign prison yet he makes it back to Gotham without a passport or any papers of form of money/travel

1. Batman Begins established that he travelled the world and learned to survive in a foreign land where he has no money, a language barrier and no one who knows who he is.
2. He threw the rope back down into the prison after he got out. The other prisoners could have helped him out in return.

When he makes it back to Gotham he thinks it wise to use this time to fix the Batlight and pour petrol over the bridge in a huge bat shape and legally leaving Wayne Manor as an orphanage

On the case of the Bat Shape...have you MISSED the repeated theme of SYMBOLS BEING IMPORTANT throughout the ENTIRE TRILOGY? Have you read the comics that make a big deal of the fact that the MYTH of Batman is a huge part of why he's so effective?
As for the orphanage thing, well he associates with them and likes to help them and well, how much time could that have really taken?

Almost the entire Gotham police force being sent to search the sewers, getting trapped there but conveniently surviving to take part in a large brawl

It was stated that they were getting food and water sent down to them.

Bane building his lair underneath the applied sciences even though it's off the books

Bane is in charge of a secret society of ninjas who "have infiltrated every level of [Gotham's] infrastructure." according to Ra's, and "Miranda Tate" has been a board member long enough she could probably track how certain funds and equipment are being diverted, or even just find out which building contractors are creating these warehouses. Not to mention...LUCIUS PUT THE SECRET DOOR TO THE PLACE INSIDE HIS OWN OFFICE! How hard could it be find?

Nolan and Bale have gone on record several times saying they don't like the Robin character and don't wanna use him yet he's there. Ok, not really technically the sidekick Robin but, I'm sorry, it basically is Robin. It's almost like WB forced Nolan to add him so he went "ok but I won't call him Robin".

Nolan addressed this aspect of the ending and says it goes back to the idea that Batman is a symbol that can be appropriated for good, and not necessarily just by one man. And you know damn well they meant they weren't going to have an in-costume underage kid with the codename Robin actually being a crimefighting sidekick like he was in the comics for a significant chunk of screentime. You're just nitpicking.

[Link]

Originally Posted by Fricky

How exactly do you inconveniently get back in time to defuse a bomb?

Well, either you conveniently do or you don't. But I was trying to make a point about the ticking time bomb being one of the oldest and laziest plot devices in fiction and not really improving upon a plot eleman that's been done so often before... After TDK you would expect them up the stakes and that's what they went with...... Something Speed did a lot better in the 90s.

I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I could write something better though. Goyer and Jonathan Nolan are good screen writers and Nolan is a good director. Was I being too over analytical? Perhaps. Was I been too harsh on it? Maybe. It's certainly not a bad film by any means and I enjoyed it in the cinema but I wouldn't buy it on DVD and I wouldn't really choose to watch it again....But I probably could sit here and watch it and not really care about any of the points I made, I was just explaining why I was dissapointed by it. Upon reflection I just have a 'meh' attitude towards, that's all.

[Wee Little Puppet Man]

Arnold Schwarzenegger says he doesn't regret Batman & Robin.

Well it hardly spoiled his career so why should he?