Game Of Thrones S2 episode discussion BOOK READERS WITH SPOILERS

[kahless]

Originally Posted by Knappos

Except that Jamie's 'doing it for the right reasons' reasoning means that he must be at the side of his Sister and their children.

Killing a distant relative to help him to escape to get on his way back to them at King's Landing - totally justifiable to Jamie as he currently is. It's not until right at the end of ASoS and during/after AFfC that Jamie starts redeeming himself to the point of realising that his tunnel vision for Cersei has been ever so slightly wrong.

See I still cant see book Jamie killing a relative in cold blood to escape. I'm even surprised TV Jamie did, especially considering Tywin's lecture to him in S1, that even though he considers Tyrion to be the lowest of the low he still see's him as a Lannister and so worth going to war over.

Over the course of S1, and S2 so far, the writers have gone to lengths to portray Jamie closer to how he is in later books than how he was in the first two. He's come across as more sympathetic, certain looks he gives, things he says show him to be more than a cold killer. What happened this week dumps him right back to how he was perceived as he threw Bran out the window.

[Knappos]

Aye, I see what you mean. Although Jamie is a central Lannister of the main line and, even in the books, is utterly contemptuous of the more distant branches of the Lannister tree (Think that Frey that was a Lannister in ASoS, Cleos was it?) Jamie didn't give a toss.

It's also an action that shows that Jamie is a character that needs/could do with redemption. At the moment he had previously come across, as you say, as misunderstood (except the Bran thing) and much more akin to late ASoS and AFfC Jamie than AGoT and ACoK Jamie.

This readies him for the road to redemption (assuming that's where he ultimately goes in the books)

[Hedwig]

Originally Posted by Knappos

Anyone notice that Tywin gave Arya the advise that Bolton gave Theon in ADwD about my lord & m'lord in this ep?

That's where it was from. I knew I'd read it, couldn't remember where. Thank you!

I think they could skip the Reeds entirely this series, and pick them up later. Bran & Osha between them can cover the ground, and that way I won't have to hear about Jojen's green dreams (pet peeve, sorry).

Regarding Jaime and Alton:Jaime didn't even remember him as a cousin; he only remembered him as someone who'd squired for him once. I think - although I'm sure he meant it when he said that Alton was a great squire and seemed to share a genuine moment with him - it's entirely consistent to me that Jaime would kill him to get back to his family. He does these things for love.

[SpaceSquid]

Originally Posted by kahless

See I still cant see book Jamie killing a relative in cold blood to escape. I'm even surprised TV Jamie did, especially considering Tywin's lecture to him in S1, that even though he considers Tyrion to be the lowest of the low he still see's him as a Lannister and so worth going to war over.

Yeah, I'm with you, kahless. It's one thing for him to hold the minor Lannister branches in contempt (and Cleos Frey was a weed and a wet in any case), but I can't for a moment see the son of Tywin Lannister engaging in kinslaying.

Look at how Tywin shows mercy (albeit his own harsh brand of it) to Reginald in Episode 5, telling him he can go home to his wife rather than scrub the latrines, since he's family. If he ever finds out Jaime killed another Lannister on the off chance it would allow him to escape (and I've no doubt the fact he failed to even manage that would anger Lord Lannister still further), I'd think he'd be apoplectic.

"You have chosen to come here and tell me that we lost you after getting a Lannister host killed and you've returned after killing a Lannister yourself?"

[kahless]

Originally Posted by Knappos

Aye, I see what you mean. Although Jamie is a central Lannister of the main line and, even in the books, is utterly contemptuous of the more distant branches of the Lannister tree (Think that Frey that was a Lannister in ASoS, Cleos was it?) Jamie didn't give a toss.

Yes I agree he didn't have a lot of time/respect for Cleos, but he didn't for one minute think or say "Here you sacrifice yourself distracting the wench whilst I escape."

[kahless]

Leaked audition tape confirms Edmure Tully in for S3

Unfortunately the links to the tape don't work now so have obviously been pulled by HBO. If this is eventually confirmed it looks like we will get to see Riverrun.

Seems casting is well underway (even GRRM has commented on his blog and mentioned he's been reviewing the tapes & that ALL 1st draft scripts are in) but don't think enough just yet for a S3 thread to be started, but should a flood suddenly start then if no on else has I will start one.

[mini_beastie]

I thought this week's episode was treading water a bit. Not many of the main plots seemed to moved forward much. Still, there were a lot of nice moments. Nice bit of interaction between Theon and Yara were she's not coming across as a total bitch for once. You're gonna wish you'd listened to big sis soon enough boyo! It's always fun to see Tyrion and Varys dancing around each other. Notice that Varys said 'you first' then didn't actually give Tyrion any information at all?

One niggle, there was no reason why Cersei would think that Ros was Tyrion's main squeeze. In the books it's obvious why she gets the wrong girl but surely she wouldn't think Tyrion would give someone he was in love with to her nut-job son to play with. Even if she didn't know it was the same girl it's hard to see why she would have picked on Ros in particular.

Anyway hopefully next week it should all kick off big time.

[Knappos]

I was a bit too drunk and a bit too tired watching this weeks one (my darts team play on Mondays so I normally watch when I get in but this week it went on ridiculously late). So I will have to re-watch.

I don't remember it being bad but nothing jumped out that I can remember overly much.

I suppose with the Ros thing, Tyrion visited her in t'north and then she moved to Kings Landing to under the service of Little Finger so, Cersei's putting 1 and 1 together and getting 11 makes sense in TV show continuity land.

Poor Ros isnt having much luck with Lannisters between Joffrey and his mother...

[vonbloodbath]

Originally Posted by Knappos

Aye, I see what you mean. Although Jamie is a central Lannister of the main line and, even in the books, is utterly contemptuous of the more distant branches of the Lannister tree (Think that Frey that was a Lannister in ASoS, Cleos was it?) Jamie didn't give a toss.

It's also an action that shows that Jamie is a character that needs/could do with redemption. At the moment he had previously come across, as you say, as misunderstood (except the Bran thing) and much more akin to late ASoS and AFfC Jamie than AGoT and ACoK Jamie.

This readies him for the road to redemption (assuming that's where he ultimately goes in the books)

I think that's exactly right. They needed to reestablish Jamie as a dangerous scoundrel, rather than someone we pity and empathise with.

[kahless]

Episode 9: Blackwater

Oh
My
GOD!

Anyone disappointed with this episode has no soul, absolutely frakking brilliant!