SFX poll result sends Serenity DVD rocketing up the charts!
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Our "what's the best SF film ever?" poll has been getting coverage all over the shop. Yesterday, you may have read about it in The Sun. Or The Guardian. Or heard it being talked about on Radio One. All bleedin' day. For the benefit of those who missed all the kerfuffle... according to our online poll, the best SF film ever made is officially: Serenity. Not Star Wars. Wowzers. Anyhow, the ripples in this particular pond just keep on, er, a-rippling. Today we heard from the good people at Amazon.co.uk, who were astonished to find that the Serenity DVD has suddenly leapt into their "Movers and shakers" chart of titles with the biggest day-on-day increases in sales. Here's the stats: before news of our poll broke like a tsunami upon a flabbergasted nation, Serenity was a humble 144th on Amazon's DVD chart. Twenty-four hours later, it had leapt to 15th place, with an 860% increase in sales. Which is why, this afternoon, we feel like mutants who's just discovered their special abilities. Frankly, the realisation of the culture-warping power of our influence is starting to frighten us cos, y'know, with great power comes great responsibility, and all that jazz. What should we do next? How about a poll on whether there should be a special 24-hour ITV channel dedicated to Primeval clips featuring Hannah Spearritt in her pants? Who's with me? |
Well, that's my two cents and i'm sticking to it!
Posted by The Hulch (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 04:33 PM BST #
It's not even close!!!
I would be interested to know if the editors of SFX privately think the same. :-)
Posted by Ed Motler (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 06:19 PM BST
Website: http://www.sfx.co.uk/trackback/sfx/Weblog/sfx_poll_result_sends_serenity #
Posted by Mike Nuttall (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 06:24 PM BST #
Everyone talks about Star Wars setting the pace. Give me a break. Haven't you guys ever seen Forbidden Planet, The Day the Earth Stood Still, It Came From Outer Space, This Island Earth, When World's Collide etc.?
Star Wars was probably the biggest grossing sci-fi movie ever but when people complain about Serenity and the Browncoats (Serenity/Firefly fans), where are the billions of Star Wars fans. I'll tell you where. At home cursing Lucas for prostituting himself to the Hollywood suits.
I voted Serenity because it was a breath of fresh air. For once, we're not getting into wars with aliens from distant worlds or dealing with Admirals, Generals and Ambassadors. We're looking at what the human race could end up like but looking at life from the losing side.
One day, Serenity/Firefly will come back.
Posted by Abdul M. Ismail (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 06:54 PM BST
Website: http://www.interplanetary.ae #
There's just not enough good scifi out there.
Thanks for the article!
Posted by Nora (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 08:59 PM BST #
Unless the readers of SFX have special educational needs that requires their frontal lobes to be stimulated daily by electrotherapy just so that they can eat their Shreddies without drooling down their rubber, waist-length bibs, I can only assume that the votes were counted by the same people who confirmed the presidency of Dubya. Come on, guys; a fix, surely?
Serenity is a sub-average poo-trifle that makes Billy Shatner look like Ian McKellen at the apex of his abilities. It's a film so overflowing with bland nothingness; a film so thickly soured with curdled dialogue that it almost woke me up in the middle of the night with filthy cheese-gut.
I won't even go into how it has has filched almost every other sci-fi movie - and not even the good bits. It's sci-fi in 3rd rate cabaret; it's a chubby, inelegant chorus girl who'll never take centre stage, destined only to dream as she reverently rubs her greasy bacon face over the glittered, spangly cast-off thongs of the greats. Pigs in Space. Nothing in Space. Plop in space.
Better than 2001? Star Wars? Oh, come on, get a life. Get half of one.
dR.
Posted by David Raphael (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 09:09 PM BST #
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, all these poor people that have gone out and bought this absolute rubbish are sure going to be bitterly disappointed. You may think it's brilliant that your magazine has gotten a lot of publicity, but it's certainly not going to do anything for your credibility.
Thanks for wasting my money and time!
MM
Posted by M Morris (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 10:17 PM BST #
It has 2 things going for it - Visual effects and Han Solo. End of.
Serenity is very good (I am a fan of the original Firefly) but it ain't the best. Probably not even 'great' - The series had better episodes than the movie.
If you looked at similar polls over the last 10 years you'd see similar results - The hardcore followers vote in droves. Not toolng ago the matrix was king, in another 12-24 months we'll have another monarch of the genre.
I agree with what is written above: The day the earth stood still, the day the earth caught fire, forbidden planet - far far better than most modern trite.
Klaatu (a lover of BOTH star wars AND Firefly. But a realist also).
Posted by Klaatu (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 10:28 PM BST #
What star wars, alien, 2001 & blade runner had was bucket loads of originality, hugely important for sci-fi movies. There is absolutely nothing original about Serenity.
The movie also has an extremely high rating on imdb, all I can presume from this, is that 12 year olds have taken over the planet.
Posted by M Morris (127.0.0.1) on April 03, 2007 at 10:40 PM BST #
I liked Serenity, enjoyed seeing the characters again. But it just didn't thrill me like watching Star Wars. For me, Serenity is like the Star Trek films, they are generally ten times better than their pureblood cinematic counterparts, simply because we already know and love the characters.
I've lived with the legacy of the Whedon shows for 10 years now and its killing scifi for me. The fans are so overzealous that they create a wall of white noise that just blocks everything else.
Posted by Michael Kennedy (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 03:33 AM BST #
No "Day the Earth Stood Still," "Metropolis," "King Kong" or even "Frankenstein, but 2001 Space Odyssey is at #8, Back to the Future makes the list and Serenity is the top SciFi movie of all time?? Better than Star Wars and Blade Runner??? Truly depressing. I guess I should be thankful that at least one movie made prior to 50 years ago made the cut. If there was ever an indication that SFX might need to tweak its content, this is it.
Posted by SFAM (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 03:58 AM BST
Website: http://www.cyberpunkreview.com #
For years I have never taken public polls seriously as they often lead to horrific winners
i.e. Men Behaving Badly winning best sitcom of all time at the TV60 awards in the nineties.
'People's choice'?? Hmmm
I'm impressed that SFX has had an influence over the Amazon chart. It proves what the media can do. But people getting angry over this list is way more pathetic than the notion of people voting for something they love.
It's just a poll everyone. Sigh! And if the public feel the need to be influenced by it and spend money, well, it's their choice too.
Isn't it odd how we sci-fi fans are so intense?
Posted by Ben Ripley (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 04:53 AM BST #
Personally I think the word favorite would have better suited this poll.
Posted by craig (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 08:21 AM BST #
I was starting to think the world was full of people who took online polls as gospel.
Serenity was not the 'greatest' Sci-fi movie of all time, but the short-lived TV series and the motion picture found a home among fans willing to do anything to keep it alive and spread the word.
Perhaps those of you criticizing the movie should take a look at it's presence all over the internet and the passion it evokes from it's fans.
Posted by Dominic Ciconte (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 08:31 AM BST #
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!
Posted by Cybos (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 10:31 AM BST #
Serenity, however, pales in comparison to the series it was based on. Firefly was an exceptional piece of television that was criminally treated by studio execs, poorly advertised, shown out of sequence and, essentially, killed before it started. I urge those hearing about the Serenity universe for the first time to check out Firefly. If you don't like it, fine, sorry for wasting your time (but I would be very surprised!)
Posted by Bob (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 10:33 AM BST #
But I have half a life.
Posted by Clarry (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:14 AM BST #
I have to agree with Bob, Firefly seemed to be the most original series on TV for years (I am speaking as a Wheedon fan though) and I was amazed it was cancelled, particularly knowing the cult following Joss Wheedon's projects collect.
I personally thought Serenity was very good (not an all time great!) but mainly because it did take the characters further, my husband (who has never watched Firefly) didn't understand it at all ( not that that is a huge surprise) .
So, if you want to watch Serenity, or watched it and didn't understand, you'll just have to go and rent Firefly too, you'll thank me for it!
Posted by Penni (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:16 AM BST #
Some people don't like Serenity.
Some people think Hawk The Slayer's rubbish.
SFX only gave Highlander 3 Stars.
Go figure.
Posted by Chris C (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:25 AM BST #
How can I put this....ner ner ner ner ner?
Posted by Doubleshiny (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:45 AM BST
Website: http://www.alantudyk.net #
That said, still loved Serenity ... although I voted for Bladerunner.
Posted by The Ruminator (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:53 AM BST #
To my mind the whole thing is a bit of a pointless argument, and it's just provided a bit of sensationalist material for the media to run with for a few days. It is, however, pretty hard to doubt that Serenity is leagues and leagues ahead of Revenge of the Sith which it was released only a few months after. If Joe Public were to compare the two which he had seen most recently (and bear in mind that to the average person in the street who is overly familiar with neither franchise, this is likely to be what swings the judgement), Serenity is streets ahead. The results of the poll have other factors weighing on them as well as mindless Browncoatery (like when Serenity won the BBC 2005 film of the year).
For my own 2p, Serenity is a better sci-fi movie than Star Wars (wouldn't say it's the best though) simply because Star Wars isn't even a sci-fi movie. It's also a better movie than the last couple of Star Wars films because it was written by humans, or at least a more intelligent group of trained monkeys. It's sad that the media and the forces of the internet are going to feel the need to stamp on Whedon because this poll has upset the zeitgeist.
Posted by Rook (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 12:26 PM BST #
I'm finding the simple maths question at the bottom of the page harder each time.
Quadratic equations, tut.
Posted by Clarry (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 12:33 PM BST #
Clue: it wasn't Serenity which was actually a commercial flop.
Majority have spoken.
Posted by Cybos (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 12:58 PM BST #
Posted by caity (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 01:21 PM BST #
The gross for a movie is hardly an indicator of quality. Unless you do actually believe Titanic is the best movie of all time?
I don't think Serenity is the best sci-fi of all time, but I'd still place it above Star Wars which is a badly acted and scripted kids movie.
Serenity grossed less than the last Star Wars movie because it didn't have years of hype and marketing leading up to it. I lost count of the amount of people who said they went to see Sith even though they didn't expect it to be any good. They just went because it was Star Wars.
Serenity was a good movie (better than Sith by a mile) but the Firefly TV series was better.
Posted by Kadoogan (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 02:30 PM BST #
I'm with shiny.
Posted by Horizon13 (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 03:26 PM BST #
Sith was awesome and as the majority agree. I would say that settles it. As the saying goes Majority rules. The satar wars saga is and always shall be brilliant.
Posted by Cybos (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 04:43 PM BST #
Reviews for Serenity were almost all very good. I can only judge word of mouth from the people I know who saw it, but that was good too. But that doesn't always, or indeed often, translate to good box office. For good box office you need at least one well-known cast member and a well-run and expensive marketing campaign. Serenity had neither of those. People like familiarity so they will tend to go with the star or brand they have heard of. There are always exceptions to the rule (the original Star Wars for example), but in the main a sci-fi movie without big stars or a massive marketing budget will not get big box-office proceeds, especially in this day and age where cinemas have a high turnover of movies.
I don't think Serenity was an amazing movie, but it's good enough to be a better experience IMO than a 30 year old Star Wars, and certainly better than the three most recent Star Wars movies, with their over-reliance on special effects, dodgy acting and godawful dialogue.
But hey, wouldn't it be a boring world if we all agreed? :)
Incidentally my vote for best sci-fi movie would go to Blade Runner.
Posted by Kadoogan (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 05:14 PM BST #
This poll was for the best Sci-fi movie ever. I'm sorry that your starwars movie lost but that's what happens when people get beyond a 6th grade reading level. maybe one day you will understand. And when you do we will Gladly accept your apology for the blasphemy that you wrote above.
Posted by Joseph K (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 05:36 PM BST #
Posted by Kate (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 06:38 PM BST #
Serenity was superb, no Ewoks, no Jar Jar. no aliens from the planet zarg or pointy ears etc.
Just, here we are, in the future, things still kinda go wrong alot, but we get by.
The message of govenments trying to control the people should hit home more now than ever no?
The only thing that makes me hate it is that the story should of been told over 4 seasons of Firefly rather than 90mins of film, but I will get round to burning down fox towers for that soon.
Everybody knows Star Wars, let Serenity have its time in the limelight, if it gets a few more people into sci fi then please let me know whats wrong with that?
Posted by Glenn (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 08:50 PM BST #
Keep in mind that I had never in my life seen "Firefly" when I became aware of "Serenity." I saw a preview for "Serenity" a few months before it opened while waiting for another flick to begin. I had a little chuckle at some of the dialogue ("You wanna run this ship?" "Yeah, I do." "Well...you can't!")in the trailer and was relatively intrigued (though slightly confused regarding) the concept. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention...maybe the trailer was confusing...but that's where I was at nonetheless. I also recognized old Nathan Fillion from the bits of "Two Guys and a Girl" I caught on ABC years ago, and remembered liking the fella well enough.
When "Serenity" was released, I didn't go out right away to see it. In fact, as I remember correctly, my brother and I saw it on a Sunday and that turned out to be the last week it showed in wide release due to its performance at the box office (understandable by all accounts). I liked the first bit...though was slightly confused at times. I had a few complaints, but all-in-all I enjoyed myself. A few issues to give you an idea of where I was at:
I thought, until watching the series, that the crew of "Serenity" had aided in River Tam's escape. I assumed they sent Simon Tam in alone after her (for whatever reason...obviously doesn't make much sense now) and then flew overhead and provided the getaway. This was never really clarified anywhere but the series.
I also had no emotional attachment to Wash. When his character was pierced through the chest, it was surprising in the moment and unexpected, but didn't mean all that much to me. My brother, God bless his soul, actually burst out laughing. For some reason, it had struck a comical chord with him and, in turn, it made me laugh. We provoked angry stares from some series fans who were sitting about five rows in front of us. (And as yet ANOTHER sidenote, I barely even noticed the death of Shepherd Book.)
I'll move along though as I can tell this will already be too long for most folks here...and I'll probably draw a few "Get a life!" comments from the crowd. Anyhow, as we left the theater, we discussed the movie. My brother didn't care for it, but he definitely didn't despise. Despite a little confusion, I ended up rather enjoying it. I believe that, after he expressed his slight distaste for it, I told him something along the lines of, "Yeah, but if it becomes the next 'Star Wars' franchise that wouldn't be a bad thing. You'd get to know the characters, the universe and whatnot...might be refreshing to have something Star-Wars-free in the Sci-Fi world again."
I went home and, out of curiosity, pulled up reviews and articles about "Serenity" to see what folks were saying about a sequel and franchise possibilities. I knew it had been spawned from a show, but I didn't know anything beyond that. In the process, I discovered "Firefly." I'd remembered seein' it for rent once upon a time at our local video store. So...I rented it. Watched the first two discs the first night...then went back and grabbed the last two discs the next night and kept the first two for my brother. I told him he absolutely HAD to watch it. He put it off a few nights...then finally got around to it.
That weekend we were off to see "Serenity" again, now with a newfound love for the characters, ship and universe. We'd found a new show...and were thrilled at the possibility of it becoming a film franchise. But, to our dismay, "Serenity" had been pulled for low performance. We tried every theater...called around to the cinemas in some larger, nearby cities. It was gone before we could take advantage of seeing it on the big screen with an actual understanding and passion for the characters.
We spent the next few weeks discovering all the "controversy" surrounding the series and film. We were disappointed that there would likely be no sequel, that the show had been cancelled (in what appears to be an unjust manner, though after investigating many other cancelled "greats," I've realized this is the norm and that often it elminates a lot of rather disgusting television...not that it keeps disgusting television OFF the air) and that we'd likely not see any other incarnations of the universe we'd recently come to love and enjoy.
But life moved on. I occasionally perused message boards (mainly IMDB's "Firefly" and "Serenity" boards and the Whedonesque site) checking for news and whatnot. Got kinda excited when the E! rumor floated around that "Firefly" might return on the CW. Haven't heard that spring up again, and obviously it doesn't appear to be true. But a fella can hope...it's just a TV show I happen to enjoy.
My story ends with this last bit. About a month and a half after we found Firefly and fell in love with it (and had given up all hope of seeing "Serenity" on the big screen again), I got a call from my brother. Jokingly, he asked, "Wanna hear something shiny?"
Turned out, "Serenity" was back on the big screen at our local dollar theater. "You know we've gotta see it," he told me. So, that night, we headed to the theater to see "Serenity" on the big screen one last time. Now, I'm a little beyond the "Star Wars" generation. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like to sit in a theater in 1977 and watch that little Blockade Runner pass by and then see that Star Destroyer pass overhead in all its glory forever and ever until you thought it would never end. I envy all those who had the chance to see that (I missed the rereleases even), and can only hope that sometime in the future it is rereleased in its original form so that I too may experience it.
But when the title for "Serenity" appeared on-screen in absolute silence, and the camera pulled back and I saw that ship flying through the silence of space...I was awestruck. I felt like I was seeing the movie for the first time with my brother who, as you may recall, hadn't cared for it the first go-round. Now he was thrilled to be there. We were actually EXCITED to see the film. And, this time, when Wash bit the dust, it was my brother who looked at me and shook his head sadly. "Just no way to prep yourself for that, I guess," he told me. This from the guy who'd laughed his ass off the first time that occurred.
It's been a little over a year now since all of that. We've introduced several others to the series, though none have gotten the chance to see "Serenity" on the big screen as we did.
Now begins what promises not to be a quick rant...
As I go back and watch everything again, I find that I'm disappointed in the movie in a way. It was good, but certainly not better than the series. It lacked the series' charm, in my humble opinion. There were some continuity issues, and it felt like Whedon spent too much time trying to write to both new audiences and audiences already familiar with the story and characters. I know that, from my first viewing, I could have just as easily never gave another damn about the whole Verse because I didn't really fully understand it. It definitely didn't feel like it'd been written for folks new to the universe. I assumed at the time that the show must have been bigger than I realized and that they were relying on fans to bring in the cash.
The second time I got to see it was as a fan who realized there would be no more and was desperate for any link to the Verse I could find. That being said, I walked away with little in the way of complaints regarding the film. When it came out on DVD and I popped it on the small screen, I realized that it was certainly lacking in a lot of areas and that, while I love the characters and the Verse, I just didn't care for this particular story. Hell, we all have episodes of our favorite shows or flicks from our favorite franchises that we don't care for. For me, this was the case with "Serenity."
I still peruse the boards and discussions that Whedon's fans keep alive. Though I'd not been privy to the original "Star Wars" in its cinematic glory, I had always been a fan. I was fully aware of "Star Trek" and "Star Wars" fans and their enthusiastic passion. So, Whedon's fans and their diehard passion and love for his work was nothing new to me. He was a young George Lucas or Gene Roddenberry...not identical to either, but similar in the following he was slowly amassing.
What the Whedon fans lack is easy to pinpoint. For one, they haven't existed nearly as long as either Star Trek or Star Wars. They're a new Sci-Fi fanbase, albeit a very powerful one (as demonstrated by their charities, campaigns and whatnot). They definitely made some noise when they came on to the scene. They also lack numbers...something I have no doubt that they'll acquire (be it from Browncoats or Whedon's Buffy/Angel fans) as they continue to stick around for longer and longer. Maybe in 20 years we'll see our cult shows from today being done in the form of cinematic remakes and Whedon's work will take center stage. Maybe they'll even succeed and ressurect the whole damned series. The odds are against them, but that's never really been much of a reason for 'em to give up in the past.
What I have been discovering in his fans though is an annoying closed-mindedness. I'll be honest, I've never thought Buffy or Angel looked like shows I'd give a damn about. But, after Firefly, I gave both a second shot. To put it bluntly, I hated them. I understand and respect the audience that enjoys them, but they weren't for me. I didn't find either to be particularly witty or intelligent in any capacity. I wasn't thrilled or moved or even really enjoying myself. In fact, for me, it kind of hurt to watch them. Still, I love Firefly and am thankful that Whedon brought it to us. As a writer, I would hope to touch a variety of audiences myself and realize that you can't expect everyone to like everything you do.
But...his fans? They're slowly becoming too much for me to even tolerate. At Whedonesque, for instance, their moderators are basically like fascist Whedon-drones. Anytime anyone begins to remotely criticize or bring up anything controversial about Whedon's work the drones begin to shush everyone. They're polite...but that faux polite where you end up looking like an asshat rather than someone who is actually providing any kind of needed service to the online community there. For instance, it is apparently no longer kosher to discuss the poll taken here at SFX. Why? Here's a little snippet of the conversation I was reading today that sparked this whole post:
"See, I love polls and surveys. My view is that it's a good way to let your voice be heard in a world that is increasingly run by big corporations.
That said, if SFX wanted accurate representational results in their poll, then they would have run one in a scientific manner, limited to their subscribers. They didn't. What they wanted was a marketing device to draw traffic to their site, and one that produced interesting results so they could make a big splash in the media. This was all about marketing. In effect, they exploited fandoms like the Browncoats to increase awareness of SFX.
And they are not the only ones. This poll was an obvious marketing ploy that completely misrepresented its results, yet that did not stop the mainstream media from jumping onboard. Why? Because it meant sensational headlines, and therefore more readers.
So if we Browncoats can be accused of using this poll to promote our own ends, then we are far from alone. And at least we are being a lot more honest about it than some." - Post by AlanD
The reply:
"AlanD, do read what I wrote several posts up. The poll discussion (and all the emotional baggage that came with it) has talked itself to death.
We're happy that Serenity is doing well in the charts." - Post by Simon
I thought the guy had a good point...the initial poster that is (AlanD). The previous posts Simon mentions are replies he posted immediately after users mentioned the poll, the likelihood that the results were skewed not by the massive number of Browncoats but rather the constant repeat voting of Browncoats, or the rights of others to be annoyed that the results were skewed and produced the headlines that they did.
If you'd like to read the thread, here's the link: http://whedonesque.com/comments/12893#more
I suggest taking a look at it, especially you subscribers to SFX. I think the Whedonites need a few differing viewpoints regarding the opinions of that site's users. The whole thread took a very "Do you think we'll get a sequel out of this?" turn that everyone seemed to endorse because it is an acceptable thing to discuss so long as no one gets too negative about Box Office results. To their credit, some did take a more realistic approach to the sequel discussion (See post from Broken Soul later on down the line.).
Still...another post from the higher-ups there. In response to a user who said "It's a bit annoying to see polls distorted by fans who are bussed in (metaphorically speaking) to boost their favourite production...":
"We had this debate yesterday. Things were said and there was almost tears before bedtime. So I've no desire for Whedonesque to go down this path for a while." - Post by Simon
At that stage in the thread, I was utterly confused. No one is allowed to discuss the poll in a thread dedicated to an article ABOUT the DAMN POLL?!
I guess my overall frustration stems simply from this: Many of Whedon's fans seem poised and ready to swallow anything he gives them. The man could be standing in the middle of the desert with a white robe on and passing out "Kool-Aid" to them all and the majority would probably just drink it.
The truth about Whedon: He's a decent writer who hasn't done all that much (in cinema and television...I realize he's written comics but I really don't wanna get into that at the moment). Yes...he's been working since the days of "Roseanne" and "Parenthood" but for the 10 years he's been around he hasn't worked on much else beyond "Buffy," "Angel" and the "Firefly" verses. Don't get me wrong...I haven't done a damn thing in Hollywood...but I'm not trying to. My right to criticize him comes from the fact that he needs the public to make any money. He's entertaining the public...and the public includes me. So I get to have an opinion that means as much as just about everybody else. My opinion: "Firefly" was spectacular. "Serenity" was pretty good. "Buffy" was terrible...and "Angel" even worse. I like the guy's politics for the most part and I appreciate his sense of humor, but I don't care for two of his series.
That opinion amongst his fans could get me verbally stoned. Does it really matter in the end though? Not really. Because when it comes right down to it, all this virtual trash talk and virtual policing by his overzealous fans doesn't do much. Yeah...it helps word of mouth to an extent...but Sci-Fi geeks know what's goin' on in the Sci-Fi world on their own and the Internet can get you the basics on just about any situation. Whedon's fans just bug me I guess...that's all. I love "Firefly"...and keeping up with it and conversing about it on the net means interacting with those fans. But at times, it feels like I'm being punished for liking the damned series because I'd like to have a full, open and completely uncensored conversation regarding his work. I'm not talking profanity or vulgarity...I'm talking criticism. I wanna voice my opinion with Whedon's fans the way I can with Lucas' fans. Hell...there are plenty of folks out there that LOVE the original trilogy. They even love bits and pieces of the new trilogy...but they actively and openly discuss and criticize the whole thing. Original and new. You can't do that in Whedon's Verse...not with most of them.
I'm not a "Star Wars" geek anymore, I'd say. I grew out of it, but still love the genre and the "Star Wars" trilogies (yes...both...despite utter disappointment in the recent installments). "Firefly" pulled me back in, to be fair...it's really brought out the inner-geek in me, you could say. But if I gotta deal with Whedon's boys and girls going absolutely nuts anytime anyone offends their delicate sensibilities and attempting to censor, ban and punish any and all who oppose them...it isn't even worth it. I may simply avoid Whedon's work just to avoid the fans.
As for "Star Wars" v. "Serenity"...I voted "Star Wars." Best Sci-Fi film of all time? Maybe "Star Wars" had some rough acting, bad dialogue and was made 30 years ago. But it did something for Science Fiction fans that no other film had ever done before. For that, I think "Star Wars" wins. I love "Serenity" and thank Joss Whedon for bringing that crew to life and being willing to give them a second chance in the film he wrote and directed. I won't apologize, however, for the harsh criticism I'm willing to offer him (not that I expect a personal response from him ever, of course, but I will voice my opinion publically where his fans will hear it). If ever I find myself in Hollywood attempting to rewrite the Science Fiction television genre or even take a new look at the Horror genre...I'd hope he (AND his fans) would do the same for me.
And for the record...I only voted once.
Posted by DRB (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 10:26 PM BST #
I agree with some of your comments and pretty much all of them as far as the movie goes. I totally agree that it wasn't as effective when you hadn't seen the show first.
Regarding the message boards, yeah there are some people who spoil the whole thing, much like every other busy message board in existence (even Star Wars ones I imagine). I post on a Firefly board that actually suffers very little from that. Most of the threads are off-topic these days but it's mostly a friendly place.
I liked Buffy and Angel (preferred the more adult Angel out of the two) but of course there are plenty who like one or two of Whedon's shows and dislike the others. Nowt wrong with that. All personal taste isn't it?
By the way, Whedon also was at least partly responsible for screenwriting Speed and Toy Story.
It's good to read an opinion from someone actually backing it up with reasons! Whilst I can appreciate Star Wars for what it did for sci-fi I just couldn't get into the whole saga. I never actually voted in this poll. If I were picking the sci-fi movie I am most likely to sit down and slap into the DVD player when I have a spare couple of hours, it would probably be Serenity. As this poll asked for the best I'd still go with Blade Runner. I hope they finally release a decent version of that on DVD.
Posted by Kadoogan (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:43 PM BST #
Posted by Rook (127.0.0.1) on April 04, 2007 at 11:52 PM BST #
Posted by Superluminal (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 01:19 AM BST #
Y'know the ones. The vocal minority. They dress up at the conventions, paint their faces at the games, riot in the streets...and so on.
And if the browncoats are louder than most? Well, they've had to be. Firefly was being ****ed by its own network, Fox, before its first episode even aired, and the main reason Fox even bothered releasing the DVDs in the first place was just to shut the browncoats up. (Seen any DVDs of Brimstone? Or Strange Luck? Most of Fox's "failed" series never see the light of DVD.) The fact that those DVDs have been bestsellers, almost continuously, for several years now should make Fox feel, at the very least, shamefully shortsighted.
Besides, internet polls are a dime a dozen. So why's everyone taking this one so bloody seriously? I mean, didn't this very 'site have a poll, some while ago, that showed George Lazenby as being the most popular James Bond ever? Nobody took that one seriously did they?
And, as for me, Star Wars was my first love. But the relationship soured back in '83 with A Very Muppet Star Wars (also known as Return of the Jedi). Then it turned downright hostile with the ****ing "Special Editions". But the prequels're what finally killed it.
'Cause, for example, the original Star Wars has retroactively lost a lot of its mystique now that I know Vader's turn to the Dark Side had less to do with some tragic fall from grace, and more to do with some whiny kid's paranoia (possibly insomnia induced) about being dis'ed by his superiors.
So, yeah, I voted for Serenity. It may not be The Best Ever (that'd probably be Forbidden Planet; without which we wouldn't have Star Trek; without which we wouldn't have...just about everything else) but it is, presently, my personal favourite.
Posted by theshadowalker (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 05:16 AM BST #
At the end of the day the amount of money a film makes does matter to the studios, they all want to make a profit in the end. I do not think this is an indicator of what's best but it is what's popular. I'm sorry firefly was a flop and was axed halfway through it's first (and only!!!) series and that Serenity was a flop. Maybe if the studio had believed in it more, the marketing campaign would have been better. Says alot when the studio that funded it didn't make any effort to really get it out there to the market.
Star Wars will always be better TO ME!!!
Can't we all just get along people, frankly if you like any type of Sci-Fi, you are in excellent company.
Posted by Cybos (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 09:09 AM BST #
"Can't we all just get along people, frankly if you like any type of Sci-Fi, you are in excellent company. "
Well said.
For what it's worth, most Browncoats I know just get drunk when we meet and nothing is mentioned about the film/TV series. And as for Jedis! Google the Jedi Chefs. An admirable bunch of people. You will see many, many recognisable Sci-Fi faces amongst the Celebrity Chefs.
Posted by Clarry (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 12:33 PM BST #
To me it seems like these people who voted just feel that Serenity is a really good film that deserves more attention than it got. Personally I was disappointed with the film the first time I saw it, but I like it more each time I see it (and by now I have seen it at least 20 times). For me that’s always how it works with Joss’ stuff. I think you have to give it time but if you do he builds worlds that stay with you long after you turn off the TV. I know that everyone except a (relatively) small group of people think this is crazy, but I put everything that Joss has put onto film (Buffy, Angel, Firefly /Serenity) above basically everything thing else I have seen on TV/film. I don’t think there’s anyone who can do what he does with dialogue, humor, and plot. Final note: I think anytime you watch anything thinking #1 SF MOVIE EVER!!!! You will probably be disappointed.
Posted by Valencia Pilgrim (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 02:35 PM BST #
This poll was for the best Sci-fi movie ever. I'm sorry that your starwars movie lost but that's what happens when people get beyond a 6th grade reading level. maybe one day you will understand. And when you do we will Gladly accept your apology for the blasphemy that you wrote above".
Joseph K,
Mate, I am 36, and I find it laughable that some spotty little teenager if you are even that old is telling me about my reading comprehension, you couldn't even spell my name right you clown!
I don't give a damn about Star wars quite frankly, I was simply appalled by the fact that this movie was voted the best sci-fi movie ever, and then was advertised as such on loads of news outlets around the world. I was fooled into watching it by this poll, as were obviously 1000's of other people based on Amazon's sales info. Watching it, I was shocked by how bad this movie was. The acting was atrocious, as was the script, and story line.
Perhaps many of you that love this movie are just not old enough to have watched movies that adults, and respected critics rate highly.
Have any of you watched Battlestar galactica? At least they make some effort in writing their scripts and character development. I do blame myself for being fooled into watching it, I usually do some research into a film before I bother watching it, simply because there is so much rubbish out there, and if I had known it was directed by the same person who did Buffy etc, I would definitely not have wasted my time with it.
Posted by 127.0.0.1 on April 05, 2007 at 05:15 PM BST #
We loved it! It blew our socks off!
We came out of the theater and my Mom ( who likes all sci-fi and is open minded ) looked at me and said with a grin on her face... "That's what Star Wars should have made me feel!!"
My daughter who is jaded about sci fi and opinionated said "This should be the next big franchise!".
I'm glad Serenity won the poll, Star Wars has enough fans and enough publicity and enough followers that it can spare a bit of attention and not be intimidated one bit.
DRB, I'm sorry you were made to feel uncomfortable within the Browncoat fandom. The sites I frequent and call home do not treat new folks or folks with their own opinion with disrespect. Forums are places for us to share our thoughts and our opinions in a civilized manner. The Browncoats I know and call friends are open, kind and welcoming and opinionated too. There is a way to be all of those things.
I would hope that this poll brings a few people to see Serenity with an open mind and not judging it by their previous experience with any movie or with Whedon's other work. Serenity deserves to stand on it's own. There will be people who dislike it, there will be people who think it's a great story, and there will be people who fall in love. When you do, find the Browncoats... you won't be disappointed to belong to a community that works for charity, tries to be good to it's members and like me loves lots of other sci fi too!
Cybos your quote above is just right...
"Can't we all just get along people, frankly if you like any type of Sci-Fi, you are in excellent company."
Yes, indeed we are. :)
moonrise
Posted by moonrise (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 05:32 PM BST #
Posted by 127.0.0.1
Since we covered three generations of sci-fi fans during our viewing of Serenity, I think that being old enough is surely covered there.
Serenity was highly rated by critics and won several awards.
Liking something is subjective. We all like what we like. By the by, I also love BSG, you're right... excellent writing.
Posted by moonrise (127.0.0.1) on April 05, 2007 at 05:38 PM BST #
I think a wider audience of people get that warm nastalgic feeling when Star Wars is brought up than when Serenity is.
Star Wars-at least the original Trilogy- will always be classic. Whether or not Serenity will, only time will tell, but even if it is- its only going to be to a small group of hardcore scifi fans.
Posted by Kate (127.0.0.1) on April 06, 2007 at 12:51 AM BST #
1) At the time of release Blade Runner was a flop. We saw it 4 times and thought it wonderful.
2) Serenity at the movies was a flop - crap poster and little publicity.
3) Star Wars the original is a great film.
4) If fans voted Serenity to try and encourage people to watch it, I'm all for that. It is in the same league as Star Wars and Blade Runner.
It's just a poll folks - try not to get too upset...
Posted by Mike Poole (127.0.0.1) on April 06, 2007 at 08:16 AM BST #
If the discussion were among tried and true Sci-fi afficionados, most of whom LOVE the Firefly universe, I'm pretty positive this is about where Serenity would come out (this does NOT mean that Serenity isn't terrific - it does mean that there are quite a few terrific Sci-Fi movies - at least 30 of which are better than Serenity). Instead, apparently this poll was posted on browncoat boards and was flooded by Firely fans. That the discussion here centers whether Serenity should be #1 or #2 of all-time is just silly in the extreme. I could go through the LONG list of movies that are clearly better, more influential, and so forth, but I'm guessing this will be lost on all those arguing that this poll is accurate.
Just as a final thought, believe it or not, some people still watch those old black and white movies. They even made some B&W flicks that fit into the Sci-fi genre (not that any of them were good enough to make this list, of course). Surprisingly, you might have even heard of some of them (many are even out on DVD!). Try it some time - you might even find that some come close to the greatness that is Serenity!
Posted by SFAM (127.0.0.1) on April 06, 2007 at 03:40 PM BST
Website: http://www.cyberpunkreview.com #
Posted by SFAM (127.0.0.1) on April 06, 2007 at 03:51 PM BST
Website: http://www.cyberpunkreview.com #
I don't think Firefly and/or Serenity are for everyone but there may be people out there who would enjoy Firefly and Serenity if they were exposed to them.
Do I think Serenity is the greatest Sci-Fi film of all time? No. These days, however, I ENJOY Firefly and Serenity more than Star Wars. Though I have loved it my entire life I don't think Star Wars is the greatest Sci-Fi film of all time, either. That has never stopped me from loving it.
I also don't think people should take this poll so seriously. Browncoats (like me) are rabid for any mention of Firefly or Serenity, and any opportunity to promote it. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe the die-hard Sci-Fi fans who have taken such issue with this poll are simply upset that they haven't been as vigilant or as passionate as the Browncoats.
I would also like to say that I do not consider myself an unintelligent person. I don't normally associate with unintelligent people. Everyone with whom I have shared Firefly and Serenity has enjoyed both. That being said, all my friends liked the movie Napoleon Dynamite while I didn't enjoy it at all. I don't think they're stupid for it. It's a matter of taste and perception.
For those who don't enjoy the Firefly/Serenity franchise to make the generalization that the fans must be somehow lesser minds is absolutely ridiculous and completely unncessary. These are only movies, people. There's too much anger and hate in the world already.
We could conduct internet polls until the cows come home. The results will always be determined by who is passionately paying attention at the moment. For the SFX poll it was the Browncoats. One day it may be the Blade Runner fans. Or the Star Trek fans who weren't even represented in the poll (and Star Trek is a highly-beloved franchise for a great many people).
I don't think this poll has tarnished the reputation of Star Wars. Serenity, and it's universe, are widely known to have been inspired by Star Wars. Joss Whedon has openly discussed the fact that he wanted to explore the following scenario: what if Han Solo never met up with Luke Skywalker, never got involved with the rebellion, never encountered The Force, and simply had to go on making a living as a smuggler? Joss infused this question with an interest in Civil War history and world politics and created the Firefly Universe.
Furthermore, I don't think people can complain about a movie (or anything else) being derivitive if they enjoy any of the following modern entertainment genres: Pop Music, Alternative Music, Country Music, Romantic Comedies, Horror Movies, Reality Television, Entertainment Magazines, etc.
Nearly everything in entertainment is derivitive of that which came before. New generations take past works and condense them into a concentration of their favorite elements. Star Wars is no different, having been influenced by WWI and WWII dogfight films, Sci-Fi serials from the early days of television, and the works of other filmmakers and fantasy authors. Let us not forget that without it's production design Star Wars is nothing more than the story of David and Goliath.
Posted by Seth Asa (127.0.0.1) on April 06, 2007 at 08:40 PM BST
Website: http://www.myspace.com/sethasasounds #
I by the way loved the film although I still think the first 2 terminator and Alien films are better.
Were people this outraged when Serenity won Film 2005 film of the year?
Posted by stevio (127.0.0.1) on April 08, 2007 at 11:21 PM BST #
Posted by Colin (127.0.0.1) on April 10, 2007 at 02:02 PM BST #
Some people don't like Serenity.
Some people think Hawk The Slayer's rubbish"
Hawk The Slayer's rubbish?
[punch]
Posted by Bilbo (127.0.0.1) on April 11, 2007 at 05:33 PM BST #
Serenity is the future and it doesn't have that eternal sludge on its reputation as star wars does. the sludge being the prequels.
I love both star wars and serenity but you star wars geeks have to get with it. there is nothing sadder than a geek that is out of touch with the world of geekdom. firefly and serenity will rise out of the ashes!
Posted by malreynolds (127.0.0.1) on May 12, 2007 at 11:25 PM BST #
Serenity/firefly complete flop.
Jealously is so petty, get over it!!!
Posted by Cybos (127.0.0.1) on May 31, 2007 at 10:54 AM BST #
Serenity is rooted in a TV show which was fantastic. The writing was smart and it contained humor. Much of that was carried over, but there was a compactness to the movie that lost some of the episodic freedoms, and, thusly, killed some of the overall quality. That said, the writing was far better and has more levels than SW (i love the original SW trilogy and I am merely warm on the prequels, but I like them). I am also a trek fan and I have seen most of the "big name" films. I think Serenity has a lot going for it and I wish that it had had a longer run in the theatres so I could have seen it there.
Post 1:
Put it like this, what was the highest grosssing film of 2005?
Clue: it wasn't Serenity which was actually a commercial flop.
Majority have spoken.
Post 2:
Sorry Kadoogan but that's rubbish, if Serenity had been any good word of mouth would have helped it gross alot more than it did. The fact it didn't tells me no one was impressed and those that were weren't impressed enough to tell anyone else to go see it.
Sith was awesome and as the majority agree. I would say that settles it. As the saying goes Majority rules. The satar wars saga is and always shall be brilliant.
Posted by Cybos
Posted by Generic Browncoat (127.0.0.1) on June 04, 2007 at 02:33 PM BST #
Posted by Mister HU (127.0.0.1) on June 04, 2007 at 09:18 PM BST #
Star wars has just celebrated it's 30th birthday, Will anyone remember Serenity in 30 years time, i think not.
And yes when a film doesn't make back what it cost to make it, in serenity's case it didn't even make a quarter of budget back it is classed as a commercial flop!!!!
Posted by 127.0.0.1 on August 07, 2007 at 04:16 PM BST #
Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones - 2nd Highest grossing film of 2002
Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith - Highest grossing film of 2005
Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope - Highest grossing film of 1977
Star Wars Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back - Highest grossing film of 1980
Star Wars Episode 6: Return of the Jedi - Highest Grossing film of 1983
Serenity - massive flop!!!
Speaks for itself..............................
Posted by LM (127.0.0.1) on August 08, 2007 at 03:50 PM BST #